St. Elmo's Fire (1985) User Reviews

John Hughes for the big kids.

[Mr_Censored · 7/10 · 2 July 2009]

Seven friends -- fresh out of college and in their mid-20's -- find themselves struggling with real-life issues such as breaking away from an over-bearing family, getting married, raising children, finding a career, finding love and creating an identity, all while trying to maintain a tight-knit friendship with one another as they booze it up at "St. Elmo's," a bar that perhaps served as the grandfather to the coffee shop in "Friends" or even the pub in "How I Met Your Mother." They laugh, they fight, they learn, and by the end of the flick, things have changed, but their "fire" has remained.

You might recognize three stars of "The Breakfast Club" -- Judd Nelson, Ally Sheedy and Emilio Estevez -- who have magically turned into college grads, and alongside Andrew McCarthy, Demi Moore, Rob Lowe and Mare Winningham, round out the solid cast of "St. Elmo's Fire." A good decade before bringing a perfectly good "Batman" franchise to its knees, writer/director Joel Schumacher did what few films could do with the "Brat Pack" in tow. That is, he created a film that dared to be over-dramatic and dared to touch upon the ugliness of growing up long after the security of school and family has faded. While some characters and their stories are questionable (Emilio Estevez, I'm looking at you), the little stories that make up their day-to-day life are, for the most part, stuff that everyone goes through, and none of the actors seem ashamed to look ridiculous in portraying the selfish, the immature and the inexperienced. For the most part, the characters feel real, and that's why the film works as well as it does.

Perhaps it's a little too over-dramatic and self-indulgent for its own good, but maybe that's the point. All seven characters are colorful, albeit, horribly flawed human beings, and it shows in the most awkward and endearing moments of the film. You may not understand their decisions or why they choose to bring so much drama down on themselves, but you'll at least relate to it in one way or another. How you interpret and appreciate the film rests both in your position in life and whether or not you can recognize the biggest flaws in yourself. It's a film that will speak volumes to anyone fresh out of college, in their 20's or with the hindsight to realize how silly and self-made much of the drama in their life has been.

A gear change in life that is too often over looked

[s.g.miles · 7/10 · 23 May 2018]

I enjoyed this movie when it was released I enjoy it even more now for different reasons. In my teens it was fascinating and focused on decisions I would be making in a few years. In my 40s there's a poignant melancholy as I remember very similar situations faced by my own group of hometown friends. All of the individual components of the film are solid with my only negative criticism being the slightly overblown intensity of some of the relationships. It's all very much a 6 out of 10 experience, but what elevates to a 7 for me is one particular scene that still resonates powerfully... In the film the characters have a regular table at their favourite bar. The last scene of the movie sees them standing outside the bar looking at a younger crowd at 'their' table. The characters linger for only a moment as they explain they each have various reasons for not going for a beer. I had exactly this experience the week before I left home to work overseas and start my career. This scene punches me hard, I miss those days and 'our' table in that bar

A very good movie about the complexities of life

[baumer · 7/10 · 26 July 1999]

When I first saw this film I was about 14. I loved it back then because there were so many cool actors in it. That is why, nothing more and nothing less. But now, as I am a young adult perhaps going through some of the same scenarios and fears and insecurities that these people are in the movie, I can appreciate it a whole lot more. Not only is it a film that has an incredible young cast in it, but it is a film that does a great job of dealing with a plethora of issues. My favourite character was Billy, the Rob Lowe character. Sometimes his intentions weren't always spelled out for us, but there are subleties about the way he plays his character that really hit home. You can tell that he misses the easier days of college. The days where all he had to do was play sports and smoke up a bit. But now he is in real life and he can't quite seem to find his niche. He is still the good looking playboy that can get laid whenever he feels like it, but as for dealing with real life issues, he is confused and scared. And he masks that insecurity by being a playboy. It's a great character study. Many of the other characters in the film have interesting stories as well. None of them have quite figured out what the meaning of life is yet and all of them are kind of living on the edge. All are attempting to get by with what they have, but what it ultimately comes down to is that none of them really knows the answers. Maybe some have become more successful than others but deep down they are all scared of life. Now I don't know about other mid 20's people, but I can sure relate to what they are feeling and going through. And this movie made me feel like I am not the only one that may not have all the answers. If this is a film that you haven't seen in a few years, watch it. Admire what it wants to say. Take it for what it is. I really enjoyed what this film was about. And it made me feel a bit better about life, after all, we're all going through St. Elmo's Fire.

Self-absorbed?

[Jaymay · 10 August 2001]

St. Elmo's fire has been on constant play on HBO lately. I turned it on the other night and watched the whole thing. Yeah, it was a nostalgia trip (I remember watching it a few times on cable ten years ago) but it also has some decent scenes and it really captures a "moment," both for recent college grads and for those of us who were enchanted by the brat pack in the 80s.

I've been reading other people's reviews; several of them whine about how "self-absorbed" these characters are.

Well...um... duh. Yeah. Most movies are about self-absorbed people. Self-absorbed people are more interesting, because they don't care what other people think: self absorbed people feel deeply, they make huge mistakes, and they're generally fun to watch. Some of the greatest movies of all time are about self-absorbed people: Annie Hall (Alvy Singer), Amadeus (Mozart), Leaving Las Vegas (Nic Cage), Goodfellas (Every single mobster in the movie). Mother Theresa was completely giving, completely SELFLESS, and yet I haven't seen a great movie about her. That's not the point.

I'm not saying St. Elmo's Fire is a classic. I'm just saying, calm down people. Take the movie for what it is, a stylized look into one moment in life, and don't be so preachy about what kinds of characters are "appropriate" to focus on.

Soapy cheesy melodrama

[SnoopyStyle · 6/10 · 29 July 2014]

Seven friends are just out of college. Billy Hicks (Rob Lowe) is sax playing hard partying irresponsible mess with a baby. Wendy Beamish (Mare Winningham) is a social worker from a wealthy family in love with Billy who keeps covering for him. Kirby Keger (Emilio Estevez) is studying the law and chasing older doctor Dale Biberman (Andie MacDowell). Alec Newbary (Judd Nelson) is a political animal living with girlfriend Leslie Hunter (Ally Sheedy). They're the perfect couple of the group. Kevin Dolenz (Andrew McCarthy) is a writer and never in a relationship which leaves some speculating that he's gay. Then there is Jules (Demi Moore) who lives vastly beyond her means. Everybody hangs out at a local hangout called St. Elmo's Bar.

It's soapy. It's cheesy. It's a lot of white people problems. These are privileged self-obsessed characters trying to grow up. Certainly there is a lot of trash talked about of these actors. Besides the stigma of being called 'The Brat Pack', these are some of the best actors of their generation. The story is a jumble of melodrama. The preppy style is terribly dated but it remains a cultural milepost. Let's face it. A sweaty Rob Lowe playing the sax is cheesetastic.

Well, you know, it ain't easy being me

[TBJCSKCNRRQTreviews · 6/10 · 30 May 2010]

Other than his Batman flicks, Schumacher is relatively dependable for delivering something that, at the very least, does the job. Watch A Time To Kill, 8MM, Bad Company, Phone Booth(OK, that one is arguably downright good), or The Number 23(the ones I've seen of his). Know what I mean? They sorta stay with you somewhat, but you don't find yourself calling them "great". This is another addition to that. I'll start by addressing complaints I've heard about this; it's said to be excessively 80's, and I basically get what they mean(not growing up in the decade, being 4 years old when it ended, I have no recollection of it), and if that is likely to bother you, then yeah(the man often does not know when to say stop to the designers; I refer you to his short stint at superhero movies... you know, the ones that nearly killed the genre, with the murder weapons being neon and camp), you may wish to steer clear. Another is that these characters, credible and well-written though they are, are spoiled, selfish, superficial, and at times empty-headed, brats. Yes. They are. The film is aware of this(which always makes it considerably easier to tolerate), and it doesn't pretend that those are attractive traits. No, they are not necessarily likable; however, they are relatively interesting to follow. Think Election. And the things they go through are quite easy to recognize. Life after high school, love vs. obsession, relationship issues and dealing with various problems that young people face are dealt with, and it comes across pretty convincing and genuine. It can be funny here and there, when it goes for it, a little of that being black comedy. This is fairly engaging, and there is some tension. There are a few stereotypes in this, such as the presentation of a gay man; meanwhile, when you look at how the straight people in this are, it would have stood out more(as Joel points out in the informative and amusing director's commentary on the DVD; it also comes with theatrical trailers for About Last Night and Mortal Thoughts) if it had been toned down. There's the prostitute and the Jews, as well, I suppose. The acting tends to be spot-on. There is a bit of sexuality(not graphic, only brief nudity) and strong language in this. I recommend this to anyone looking for pictures about the troubles of growing up. 6/10

Life And Love In The Eighties

[bkoganbing · 7/10 · 7 January 2010]

Someone has called this the ultimate Brat Pack movie and while I gladly will accept all nominations for rivals, this will do until someone suggests a better one.

St. Elmo's Fire centers on the lives and loves of seven 20 something college graduates from the Georgetown, Maryland suburb of Washington, DC. They're all starting out with careers of some kind, but they're also looking for THE career move and the move to a real life partner.

They run quite a gamut from Judd Nelson an aide to a Congressman to Rob Lowe who bounces from job to job and who really just wants to play his saxophone. The women are an assorted lot as well from hedonistic Demi Moore to virginal Mare Winningham with Ally Sheedy in the middle.

We can't forget Emilio Estevez as the law student who works at St. Elmo's bar where they all hang out and Andrew McCarthy the cynical writer who's about to become a victim of what he doesn't believe in, committed love. Except for Winningham, they seem to have all hooked up with each other at one time or other and she's saving herself for the irresponsible Lowe. When you see the stiff her rich parents, Martin Balsam and Joyce Van Patten, are trying to set her up with, you can't really blame her.

There's no real plot to St. Elmo's Fire, but the film is a character study of the young folk of the Eighties, at least the young white folk of the Eighties. It might have been nice to have included a minority or two in the cast. Still the characters do have a certain charm and you do care about what's to become of them. Best performances in the film are Rob Lowe for the men and Demi Moore for the women. They also have the showiest roles.

As sociological study of the young urban professional of the time, you can't beat St. Elmo's Fire. Not bad in the entertainment department either.

Forever Gets A Lot Shorter

[slokes · 3/10 · 6 October 2014]

Back when I first saw this film in a cinema in 1985, I hated it for being so callow and smug. I can't say I feel that differently about its defects, but I don't hate "St. Elmo's Fire" anymore. It kind of captures the charm of the period even if it grasps annoyingly at times for laughs and pathos.

Seven young people just graduated from Georgetown University find themselves up against various life challenges revolving around love. Political aide Alec (Judd Nelson) wants to marry his live-in girlfriend Leslie (Ally Sheedy), but she's not sure. Journalist Kevin (Andrew McCarthy) hides his secret love, while waiter Kirby (Emilio Estevez) and social worker Wendy (Mare Winningham) are pathetically unable to conceal theirs. Billy (Rob Lowe) is married with a baby but can't stay faithful, while Jules (Demi Moore) dances as fast as she can with her office affairs and cocaine habit.

"It's our time on the edge," is how Billy puts it, but that edge seldom merits our interest. Unfortunately, director-writer Joel Schumacher's indulgent handling of his characters' various angsts creates a gulf for viewers like me. He likes them too much, I think, for them to be successful comic-tragic figures.

Too many groaner lines in the script, too, the kind that seem crafted for trailer use rather than real human dialogue: "Wasted love! God, I just wish I could get it back!" "I'm obsessed, thank you very much!" "Let's rock!" "You break my heart. Then again, you break everyone's heart!" Catch-phrase overuse really gets out of hand.

I won't say "St. Elmo's Fire" is so bad it's good, but it's certainly distinctive in a way that I think has improved it over the years. Much of it is in the way of camp value. But it also captures a period in time, and a group of young actors, at a point when pop culture was coming together around them. They became known as the Brat Pack, which made them seem even more insufferably popular than they already were. The "Brat Pack" moniker was something they didn't accept, and Schumacher whines about it on his DVD commentary, but it made them what they were and in this film anyway, they seem to live up to that image, with their toilet dunking and ritual chants.

Another thing Schumacher mentions on his commentary is the dinging he got for the film's elitist tone. He makes the point that the critics mistook "content for intent," but it's hard to miss the snooty ways the main characters look down on the poor unfortunates around them who aren't as cool as they are, whether it be a sad naked guy wandering a hospital corridor, a gay designer, or Wendy's schlubby suitor.

"Welfare recipients are getting better looking," says Billy, which would be wrong in anyone's mouth but particularly so from the sculpted lips of Rob Lowe. It's the kind of line that screams for a comeuppance that never really comes.

What works for the film is mainly visual. The wet streets, pastel shirts, neon ties, and Billy Idol wall mural all scream 1980s, but in a better way than they did then. The David Foster score still holds up, as do the two hit songs from the soundtrack. And the actors do work well together, playing against each other naturally and with considerable charm, even if Nelson does fume and McCarthy rub his eyes too much.

It's a time capsule film, one that deserves to be in its time capsule most of the time. But it has moments of real entertainment, perhaps nostalgia, perhaps something deeper, a sense of life's passage experienced in a kind of contented bubble you know is about to pop.

Its not that bad...a comment on the times.....

[MarieGabrielle · 8/10 · 27 May 2007]

A few comments here have slammed this movie for being shallow, despite decent performers. Maybe this is not 100% similar to real life. But it does have some parallels, and except for the Judd Neldon character (rather annoying) it is realistic and comedic in some aspects.

Demi Moore as Jules is simply lost in denial borrowing money to keep up an image of success. They are 26 years old and have no clue what is in store. Andrew McCarthy likable and sympathetic. Ally Sheedy, just okay. Rob Lowe is very good as irresponsible Billy, involved with Mare Winningham, the resident unattractive 'old standby' girlfriend.

There are some scenes reminiscent of a frat party. A few scenes with Emilio Estevez, pursuing a pipe-dream romance with Andie McDowell. Basically it addresses recent graduates floundering, attempting different careers and lifestyles, affairs and obsessions. It catches that time period most of us had, when we thought we were so significant in the world, not yet jaded, still trying to find meaning and hope. The Winningham character particularly conveys the aspect of the screenplay. When her father (Martin Balsam) tells her to just get married settle down and have a greeting card franchise (like the rest of her family) No I am committed to my real job, she says as she works as a social worker, still trying to have an affect.

Similar to the later Generation X issues, and the now sense of alienation, everyone goes through similar growing pains, whether 80's materialism, 90's nihilism ('Reality Bites') or today's general alienation and violence. The issues are the same, the culture just manifests them a bit differently. 8/10

Time capsule of the '80s

[HotToastyRag · 6/10 · 28 July 2019]

If you grew up in the 1980s, you probably loved St. Elmo's Fire and all the other Brat Pack movies. You probably wore the outrageous hairstyles and fashions, and when you return to the anthem of your youth, you remember it fondly. If you grew up post-80s, you probably rented St. Elmo's Fire and said to yourself, "There's no way people really dressed like that." It just doesn't have the same feeling if you're renting it than if you lived it.

With their feathered, back-combed, hair sprayed 'dos, pink and blue eyeshadow, hoop earrings, high-waisted jeans, muscle tanks, fishnet stockings, and clunky jewelry, a group of post-graduate kids adjust to the very difficult task of real life, given a new word by today's generation: "adulting". The more things change, the more they stay the same, and kids in the '80s found it just as difficult to grow up as millennials do now. What happens when a group of partiers try to hold down jobs, fall in and out of love with each other, still maintain their youthful fun, and try as hard as they can not to turn into their square parents? You get a classic Brat Pack movie. Rent this movie to see Emilio Estevez, Demi Moore, Rob Lowe, Mare Winningham, Ally Sheedy, Andrew McCarthy, and Judd Nelson prance around in their '80s finest. You'll also get to see Martin Balsam, Joyce Van Patten, and Andie MacDowell in the first movie she was allowed to speak in her own, charming Southern voice.

Come On- Seriously?

[joliefille411 · 2/10 · 13 January 2010]

I'll probably get a lot of flack for hating this movie- guess I didn't approach it with the proper dewy-eyed nostalgia of the generation before me. But suffice it to say- St Elmo's Fire was pretty crap-freaking- tastic, even as far as Brat Pack films go.

Here is yet another lovely example of the smug, self-indulgent neurosis that is everything 80s (RENT, anyone?) The plot is virtually non- existent and the philosophies are kitchy at best, poorly delivered the rest of the time. The complete lack of anything resembling sympathetic characters doesn't help the situation. There really was no growth, no forward movement at all. Even the climactic suicide scene was effectually neutered by once again refusing to let death or anything resembling reality or adult life enter in.

Each cookie cutter figure simply goes about making you hate them in the blandest, most predictable way possible. The Stalker is a creep for no discernible reason other than he is a Stalker and Andie MacDowell is gorgeous. The Jackass does everything in his power to constantly remind you he is, well, a jackass. The Gorgeous Slut hides really soulful, deep pain (and some serious emotional imbalances) with a tragically wild lifestyle. The Poet moods and mopes around for a full 3/4 of the film until he can reveal (!) he actually is full of teddy bears and sunshine and rainbows. The Virgin finally becomes a whole, happy human being after getting every Virgin's desire of one hot roll in the sack with a Jackass before he ditches her to really change (for real this time). The Cheating Bastard cheats until it is time for him to get caught. And finally The Feminist go around dousing holy water on any soul that utters "commitment".

Which brings me to my final beef- what bond of super-cement was holding these people together as friends? I can't imagine being with just one of them- Now think of the vortex created by all that narcissism centered in one bar. And they were all so terrible to each other- heads in toilets, near rape, and sleeping around with everrrryone. The cherry was after two BFFs act like total baboons after screwing the Feminist, she's like, "umm, actually I don't want to be with either of you anymore. Let's be friends! And we can hang out in a totally unawkward way every day knowing that I may hook up with one or the other at any given point, but neither of you are satisfying enough for commitment (NOT THAT WORD!)." And they all smile as if to say, "Golly gee, I never thought of that! What a great idea!"

Only it's not. Kinda in the way that watching this movie is not.

The only illusion that's worth it St. Elmo's Fire

[jaredmobarak · 8/10 · 8 April 2007]

I think Joel Schumacher gets a bad rap. Sure Batman & Robin is possibly the worst movie ever made, and it did kill a multi-million dollar franchise, but is that truly all we think about on the mention of his name? I myself will admit to keeping a stigma of hack whenever Schumacher is talked about, however, along with some decent films of late, his track record in the 80's was full of pure, nostalgic gems. I finally got the opportunity to check out one of my mother's favorite films, St. Elmo's Fire. Made at the height of Brat Pack fame, this film really gets the angst of college graduation and the life of responsibility and work that waits in the future right. While not as quotable or memorable as say The Breakfast Club, Schumacher still is able to take a moment in the youth of society and make something meaningful out of it. Maybe I can relate to it having just graduated from college two years ago, but I think that it would be relevant later on as well. Even if not, it is an accomplishment to last over twenty years and still be relatable to someone in that same position in the present day.

So the film is chock full of stereotypes and clichés, does that make it not true? We have our striver for fame and notoriety at the expense of his ideals, the girlfriend who wants to make a career before settling down as a stay at home mother, the troubled artist who can't leave school behind for a real life, the self-obsessed flirt who would rather self-destruct than ruin the façade she has worked so hard to build, the love-struck indecisive one stalking a past love and changing himself to try and win her over, and the confused souls not quite sure what they want to do with their new independence. We have the drug use, the sleeping around, the comradery, and the heartbreak. Through it all, though, you can really buy into it and see moments in your own life that mirror the events on screen almost perfectly. I think a lot of this has to do with the times and the ability to use actors that are actually the age of the characters they are playing. This is a film about 23 year olds trying to find themselves, and the authenticity of having people that age, going through those things in their real lives, helps the performances to be truthful. Nowadays this would have been changed to a post- high school story with the 18 year olds played by actors 25 or older. It's the vulnerability and the childlike appearance that makes you buy into the story and want to follow it to the end to see if the friendships can remain intact.

The star-filled cast does a great job throughout, and a film like this makes you wonder where these guys have gone. An actress like Ally Sheedy, who had the talent and the looks, pretty much fell off the map once the 80's came to a close. It is her and Andrew McCarthy that really carry the film. He is another that disappeared after Weekend at Bernie's. It is always nice to see this troupe of acting talent and what they were capable of in their prime. Emilio Estevez, Demi Moore, and Judd Nelson are all pitch-perfect in their roles along with Mare Winningham playing the friend that is so totally different from everyone else in the group, yet believable because we all have a friend like that. The only weak spot, in my opinion, is Rob Lowe, who at many times seems a bit out of his element as the drunk, party guy cracking jokes and getting into trouble. I don't discount his performances totally, though, because when he has moments of clarity, like when he talks Moore down after her total collapse, he is really excellent.

Everyone goes through a moment of time in his/her life like the characters on screen in St. Elmo's Fire. Schumacher should be given credit for giving us a poignant study into the lives of those souls on the cusp of a new chapter in life and the decisions that need to be made to continue forward without regrets for what is left behind. The dialogue is realistic and it all ends in a conclusion that makes sense in the scheme of the character's evolutions. Your friends will always be there for you, through thick and thin, however, as you grow older, the roles each play in your life changes. Getting older doesn't mean severing ties to the past, but instead a restructuring of it to keep you strong and moving towards the future.

"I am now a student of life".

[classicsoncall · 6/10 · 2 January 2011]

Maybe it's my age showing, or my lack of a nostalgic sense of the Eighties, but this film only serves as a reminder of how much society has come to foster the entitlement mentality of the Me Generation. Granted, there are individuals in real life that resemble the characters here, but I believe I'm fortunate enough not to know any of them personally; and if faced with the opportunity I would have to respectfully decline. Self absorbed egotists like Billy (Rob Lowe) and Alec (Judd Nelson) are not the kind of guys I'd welcome as friends, and no matter how you spin Demi Moore's character, she's the kind of person that's eventually heading for a major downfall in life. The character I could almost relate to was Wendy (Mare Winningham), struggling to find her own way in friendships and career choice, but then she disrespected herself at the finale by granting Billy the favor of a going away present.

The only positive spin I can put on this is that the players were capable enough as actors to give me such a negative reaction. Beyond that, I can only wonder why college graduates would willingly put themselves through this type of self induced trauma in the name of finding themselves. There are classier and more noble ways to do it than being complete jerks about it. On that score, this might be the picture that singularly resulted in it's players being nicknamed the Brat Pack.

St. Elmo's FIre

[oOoBarracuda · 1/10 · 20 April 2017]

There are collections of despicable characters, and then there's St. Elmo's Fire.

Kirby (Emilio Estevez): "She is the only evidence of God I have seen with the exception of the mysterious force that removes one sock from the dryer every time I do my laundry." This guy spent a majority of the movie stalking and attempting to sexually assault someone that smiled at him in college. A truly problematic personality that often tends towards illegal activity which is odd since his career aspirations seemed to be in law. I LOVED his Woody Allen paraphernalia all over his apartment, though.

Billy (Rob Lowe): "So you lost your job? I've lost twenty of them since graduation. Plus a wife and kid. And, in a new development this morning, a handful of hair in the shower drain." This guy was a real peach. He practically abandoned his wife and child yet wouldn't grant her the divorce she wanted because he was intent on changing, yet, with no steps or methods to do so. Forcing someone to stay legally bound to you is pretty much as low as it gets.

Kevin (Andrew McCarthy): "Love, love is an illusion created by lawyer types like yourself to perpetuate another illusion called marriage to create the reality of divorce and then the illusionary need for divorce lawyers." I actually quite enjoyed this character through most the film. Kevin was constantly spouting philosophical views on life and love that were unpopular amongst his friends but taken for what he is. I'm the Kevin in my social circles, that brings Hegel up in casual conversation but never gets to enjoy the level of acceptance his character does. When it is revealed, however, that Kevin isn't speaking from an ascribed philosophical method, but rather because he is brooding and entitled believing his friend to have gotten the girl that was for him, his entire persona is revealed to be a caricature.

Alec (Judd Nelson): "Dinosaurs are obsolete. Marriage is still around." This guy was especially infuriating. I've been involved in politics since I was 16, you can't just switch parties because one pays more. I've tried this, no one trusts you since you've been working for the other party so long, plus all your contacts are within that party. Aside from that, this guy repeatedly cheated on his girlfriend because she refused to marry him; I'm sure those two facts were unrelated, though.

Jules (Demi Moore): "I don't know why you're both so worried... So, I bop him for a couple of years, get his job when he gets his hands caught in the vault, do a black mink ad, retire in utter disgrace, then write a best seller and be a fabulous host on my own talk show..." Yeah, this is your typical person that everyone knows at least one of that wants to make a lot of money and spend even more money but not work. At one point in the film, she had taken over a month's worth of advancement on her pay to "pinkify" her apartment and buy a lot of clothes. She also used her sexuality to advance her position whenever she could. The film could have made some statement about what she was trying to fill by spending money so irresponsibly but when her arc did reach its climax she was more upset to not have her material possessions anymore, rather than revealing why she felt as though she needed them in the first place. Oh, she also used the adage "you're gay and I know someone that's gay so you two will be perfect for each other" and I just can't adequately describe how much I detest that.

Leslie (Ally Sheedy): "Men... Can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em." Despite that glowing outlook on a certain subset of the population, this was one of the easier characters to tolerate. Her character almost solely existed as someone else's counterpart which is more than frustrating but that problem rests on the filmmaker than the character. I mean, did she ever talk about anything other than Alec? Barely.

Wendy (Mare Winningham): Again, one of the more likable characters which is truly fortunate as I needed some glimmer of something to hang onto in an otherwise dreadful film. Wendy was expected to live at home until she was married which led to her father practically auctioning off the rest of her life to potential suitors. Again, her character arc centered around a man so this will never be considered a feminist film, but Wendy's is one that you can almost feel a bit of sympathy towards.

Again, a film doesn't require likable characters, as long as the film own that they're terrible people. It's when a film is asking me to sympathize with characters with no redeeming qualities that problems ensue.

Shallow Characters Ruin Great Cast

[Michael_Elliott · 7 August 2017]

St. Elmo's Fire (1985)

** (out of 4)

Emilio Estevez, Rob Lowe, Andrew McCarthy, Judd Nelson, Demi Moore, Ally Sheedy and Mare Winningham are seven friends who graduate and soon realize that being adults isn't nearly as much fun as they thought. We follow their various ups and downs with much drama in between.

ST. ELMO'S FIRE has a rather amazing cast and especially when you look back on the picture. Not only do you have the seven main leads but there's also Martin Balsam and Andie MacDowell so there's no denying the star power. I've never really liked this picture yet for some reason I usually go back and revisit it ever so often. Obviously the main reason to watch the picture is because of the terrific cast and I thought all of them delivered great performances. It's just too bad they weren't given much to work with.

As I get older I think these characters are all the more shallow. Some might say they were people in their 20s so they were supposed to be annoying and shallow but I don't buy that at all. To me the characters are very poorly written here and there's just no real development with any of them. None of them are very believable and for the most part they are all single motivated characters with no development and there's not much charm to any of them. It's really too bad because the cast is excellent but they just didn't have anything here. You can watch any of these actors in much better films from this period.

The film remains watchable thanks to the cast but when the final credits come on you can't help but think you've just wasted your time. I mean, this cast ends up with these results? It's really a shame but there's more issues than just the screenplay. I'd argue that Joel Schumacher's direction is pretty bland and there's nothing good looking about the picture. You do get a great score and a catchy main song but none of this is enough to save the picture.

A Brat Pack masterpiece! Yup--it's that bad.

[preppy-3 · 6/10 · 25 October 2005]

A bunch of self-absorbed, obnoxious idiots graduate from college in 1985 and go out into the real world...but they all have serious issues. Emilio Estevez is (inexplicibly) head over heels in love with dull Andie MacDowell--who can't stand him. Rob Lowe is married, has a kid and can't stop sleeping around. Judd Nelson loves Ally Sheedy but HE sleeps around driving her into Andrew McCarthy's arms. Demi Moore is hooked on drugs. Mare Winningham is the "good girl" who is madly in love with Lowe.

I graduated from college in 1985 myself. I'll tell you--NOBODY in my graduating class were as shallow and stupid as these people are. The film looks great--it was professionally made to appeal to mainstream audiences (the R rating is for language only). All the actors look great and the movie zips along quickly...but not quick enough to disguise the fact that these people don't even remotely act like human beings, are immature (the guys especially) and are whiny and self-centered. Yet all their problems are neatly resolved at the movie's end. The problem is I didn't give a damn about any of these characters and a few I just wanted to slap (Nelsons' character especially).

I'd be lying if I said I didn't somewhat enjoy it--but in a turn off your mind kind of way. As a light, shallow entertainment this is successful. As a deep or meaningful movie it fails. The only part that was realistic was a little speech Lowe makes to Winingham about how tough it was to go from college to real life. Otherwise it has about as much depth as a Hallmark card. I give it a 6 mostly because the cast isn't bad in their roles.

Schumacher's look at 80s superficiality

[fredrikgunerius · 7/10 · 6 August 2023]

Joel Schumacher's take on life as a young adult in the 1980s may have looked glitzy back in 1985, but in retrospect, the ostentatiousness that infused these characters and their misguided attempts at suddenly being grown-ups captures the essence of 1980s middle-class culture quite well. Their hang-up on superficiality and individualism makes most of these characters rather despicable, unlikable people, but - as the film ultimately points out - they're merely immature kids thrown into a world they've not been equipped to handle. And once Schumacher has stripped off their seemingly tough shells, we get a glimpse of the susceptible, potentially good human beings underneath. The irony, of course, is that the same analysis would be valid for most of the so-called Brat Pack actors populating this critically panned box-office success. Schumacher's fast-paced, quippy style is enjoyable, partly because he never gives you enough time to really dislike the film's characters for all their selfish antics. Instead, he keeps the film moving - and is always prepared to give them another chance. The at first glance caricatured differences between our seven protagonists are alleviated by the complexity they turn out to have. That doesn't necessarily mean they're deep (this is the 80s, after all), but each of them are a compound of good and bad qualities. And it's refreshing to see with 2021 eyes that Schumacher doesn't rank their screw-ups from a moralizing point of view and pass judgement on them - he just lets their failures come and go; lets them dissolve naturally. Yes, it's a flawed film, but it never claims not to be. With a brilliant, trendsetting soundtrack from David Foster and engaging performances from the cast.

Stalker Kirby???

[schulzejennifer-29585 · 6/10 · 18 September 2020]

I'm writing this review because this film is very unrelatable. The main character in particular is Kirby (Emilio Estevez) who's obsession with Andie (the doctor) turns into stalking and predatory situation. Even for a movie that may or may not aged well. I can't imagine watching this film in 1985 thinking this behavior was normal. There is one scene he shows up at the Doctor's house and then starts smelling her pillow and the roommate saw this, she was mortified (and so was I).

I wrote this review just for this character. I can't believe this behavior was normalized!!!

The Worst of the '80's - Makes You Wish You'd Hadn't Been There

[DiscoStu2 · 1/10 · 27 December 2014]

Unfortunately this was a movie made for my generation, and unlike a fine wine which may get better with age, this was more like an old can of "New Coke" that has only degraded even further with time. After having sat through the torturous experience in 1985 and paying for the original privilege of watching this abomination back in the good old days, I thought I would revisit it in the year of our lord 2014 to see if time and experience had sharpened my insight and appreciation of this pretentious stink bomb. Sorry but the answer is now as it was then "no".

It was painfully, self-absorbed tripe then and is even more difficult to watch now. Kind of like your friend reminding you years later about how you made a schmuck of yourself at a party years ago.

Forget about explaining the plot, it's virtually non-existent and more or less just contrived motifs to showcase forced bad acting and interactions that are supposed to be meaningful and poignant but are really just forced shallow overacting.

Previous generations had Bogart, Brando, Dean, Newman, and McQueen. Sadly my generation had...these people.

In all fairness the blame can't be laid entirely at the feet of this group of too much stardom, too soon brat packers; most of them were still in their early twenties and to give them the benefit of the doubt, may have still been learning their craft even though they were being paid handsomely for the lessons. Much of the blame should probably also go to the two writers and the director; two of whom were Joel Schumacher. The intention here appears to mostly have been about exploiting these seven young rising stars in a bad forced combination similar to watching a terrible 80's musical super group. Bad musical synth pop overlays, also very 80's, filling the scenes out also didn't help.

Do real people really behave in such shallow, self-indulgent, and boring histrionics? No, not really. If you've ever gone to Times Square NYC and stood next to a cardboard cutout of a celebrity, then you get the gist of this ensemble of predictable now very dated 80's stereotypes; the hypocritical career climber politico (Judd Nelson), the self-destructive, emotionally vacant, druggie (both Lowe and Moore), the overage, good girl, virgin (something out of the '40's), and on and on.

If buckets of forced crying, laughing, pathos, yelling, etc., but nothing emotionally substantial for the viewer to identify with in any real way is your cup of tea then this may be your type of film. Believe it or not at the time I worked with a guy who loved this movie. I couldn't even muster a comeback to that statement beyond "Really?!!".

Whenever I may get nostalgic for the 80's I need only channel this movie to cure myself of that. Hard to watch in the original, almost painfully masochistic to watch now. Glad to see that many of these people, including Joel Schumacher, went on to do much better work than this, but hey, the studio was paying and the rest was on the house.

Perhaps One Must Be of a Certain Age....

[marmalade_sunrise · 8/10 · 7 September 2007]

Perhaps one must be of a certain age to truly appreciate this film. The "self-absorbed" comments seem to spring, in my mind, from older (middle-aged or elderly) viewers, or maybe just from grad students who are frightened that their prof may be reading their dissertation on this film.

In my experience as a 30 year old woman, most young people who are in their twenties are self-absorbed. I think it's a natural and necessary part of thriving in the current United States' culture. I saw this movie in my late teens, and it made a tremendous emotional impact on me. I did not see the characters as shallow, superficial, or selfish, but just as regular people like myself and my friends.

Even now that I have left my twenties, I can go back and still appreciate St. Elmo's Fire; not just for the 80's nostalgia (though that is a big draw, I must admit) but because I perceive the characters as living stories that I can identify with in parts. Especially as a slightly more mature adult, I can look back and say, "Yeah, I remember going through that." or "I knew someone like that five years ago." St. Elmo's Fire will always have a place in my heart for what it represents to my generation, and to the generation that actually came of age during the film's premiere. Maybe one had to grow up in the 80's - whether in childhood or adolescence - to enjoy St. Elmo's Fire.

Okay. So it's not timeless. Who cares? There are some great scenes in this flick and it's a fun watch, even though it always makes me cry.

I think a lot of us missed the point...

[slackline70 · 7/10 · 27 November 2022]

The most common criticism of this movie is that the characters are self-absorbed and unlikeable.

I really don't think they were supposed to be, though, and there's a key quote from Joel Schumacher to support this...

"We also wanted to make a point about self-created drama: When most of us look back on our twenties, we see that a lot of the incredible drama we went through was self-created."

In other words, while the filmmakers may have intended for us to identify with the young, shallow, self-absorbed recent college grads in the movie, they never intended for us to ROOT for them.

Rather, their intention was to take us on a journey of self-discovery to realize that most if not all of us went through a period of insufferable self-absorption in our early 20s that we can now at least redeem ourselves from by recognizing that period for what it was.

Most cite the Emilio Estevez character as the biggest flaw in the film. Kirby was, after all, a stalker - were we really supposed to LIKE this creepy weirdo? In my view, no - we were never supposed to like him. Rather, we were supposed to IDENTIFY with him as the embodiment of our own self-absorption during our own young adult years as someone who just could not come to terms with not being able to have everything he wanted.

Furthermore, I would say Kirby's story is the most honest and complete in that he did some truly creepy things, but eventually came to terms with the realization that Dale was never going to marry him.

I often think of the scene where Kirby drives away from Dale and her boyfriend with a smile on his face as a metaphor for my departure from my own self-absorbed years as a young adult. Those years were not my proudest, and were at times outright cringe-worthy. But you know what - while I don't always like myself during that period, I made it through just fine. And was eventually able to put it into perspective as an example of how not to be for the rest of my life.

You don't tickle me, "Elmo"...

[Mister-6 · 1/10 · 21 February 2000]

When this film originally came out, I thought it would be a good idea to go to the theatre to see it.

I was wrong. All it did was show me how many OTHER people with bad judgment lived in my home-town.

"St. Elmo's Fire" is one of the most relentlessly narcissistic exercises in shallow self-involvement I have ever seen. And seeing a bunch of kids playing grown-up didn't help matters much, either.

Now, the cast here has done some great things and no doubt will again. But here, all they do is look and act with the kind of smug assurance of a rich kid playing with big toys that you will never have, and smirking all the while.

Every character here is jealous of one another, wants what they have, is never satisfied and makes half-hearted efforts to make the most of what they have. But when what they have is shallow stupidity, that doesn't leave them much to work with.

Estevez fares best as a love-sick dope who follows and tries to woo a pretty doctor (McDowell, the most radiant woman in the whole movie). He actually tries to do something and act on his gut. It works, and so does he.

At least HE still gets pretty steady work.

As for the others... well, let's just say that there's no sense in worrying about a sequel.

One star, for the Estevez story-line. Boola-boola-boola, yuk-yuk-yuk!

Love, loss and yuppiedom in the 80's

[mwpressley · 8/10 · 26 October 2000]

St. Elmos Fire is a look at life of several friends who have just graduated college and are making the transition from frat parties and college football to real world decisions and backing up their degree. Although in hindsight this movie really isn't the best movie, I gave it a ten because at one time I could really relate to the characters sense of trying to redefine who they are. Demi Moore was definitely one of the weaker performances and you want to reach into the screen and smack her around for being such a half-wit snob. The rest of the cast did a really good job. The music from this movie is phenomenal. I think the reason I love this movie despite all its flaws is it makes me put my life in perspective and think about the friends and decisions I have made. Everytime I hear the love theme I can't help but feel sentimental. So all in all I gave it a hesitant 10 not for the performances, script or direction. I gave it a 10 because it hits home.

Neither Funny nor Dramatic Enough to Amaze,

[lesleyharris30 · 6/10 · 31 March 2017]

St. Elmo's Fire is a decent movie with a reasonably well developed plot and a stellar cast. We really get to see some of the most famous Brat Pack actors shine in this film, one of the more serious in their series of 80s teen movies, with the likes of Rob Lowe, Judd Nelson and Ally Sheedy really giving it all in their roles, delivering complicated characters who have a lot going on after graduating college.

However, it is underwhelming as a film. It is not light hearted enough to make you smile, nor is it dramatic enough to have you at the edge of your seat. The dialogue is quite bland and it feels like Joel Schumacher was really going through the motions during filming.

As well as that, the characters are very unlikeable. It does not portray either sides as villains, letting us as audiences decide who we support in the conflict in different plots, but I did not sympathise with any of them. I found every character to be in the wrong, all proving to be disloyal, selfish people, insincere human beings.

You finish this movie unsure whether it was genuinely trying to make you feel. Do not let the cast fool you, it is not another Breakfast Club, as a matter of fact, St Elmos Fire is somewhat of a layered mess, better off giving this one a miss.

A group of college graduates struggle with adulthood and new found responsibilities.

Best Performance: Rob Lowe / Worst Performance: Demi Moore

So Bad, It's Good

[marlahumphreys · 5/10 · 4 January 2015]

This movie is hilarious, and it's not even a comedy!

It follows 7 recent college grads, trying to transition into the real world. The caricatures... er, characters, are:

Billy - the greasy musician who's finding that monogamy and fatherhood are not his thing. Alec - the aspiring politician who's finding monogamy to his fiancée is not his thing. Leslie - Alec's fiancée, who wants to establish a career before marriage. Wendy - the philanthropic virgin in granny duds. Kirby - the waiter pining for a fellow alumna. Kevin - the sensitive writer pining for Leslie. Jules - the "Like A Virgin"-clad, coke-addled mess.

How are these people even friends? What do Leslie and Billy have in common? Or Wendy and anyone else? The only interaction between "Kirbo" and Jules is his requesting her expertise on ordering fine wine to impress a date. More importantly, how did some of these idiots attend Georgetown?

Joel Schumacher may be a fine director, but his dialogue for this age group is highly contrived. Some doozies:

Billy - "Let's Rock!" Alec - "Wasted love!" Leslie & Wendy - " Men... can't live with 'em; can't shoot 'em." Kirby - "Soon as I make it really big, I'm going Fluff-n-Fold." Kevin - "Love is an illusion." Jules - "You were always the couple most likely to couple, and don't you forget it!" Group - "Booga Booga Booga, Ah Ah Ahhh!"

I've watched this movie many times since my teens (when it premiered), and I always laugh, cringe, facepalm, stare in wonderment at the screen as to how such nonsense was even filmed. The ridiculousness of Jules' breakdown near the end, by opening her windows to allow in some cold air, perfectly sums up this masterpiece.

And then the cherry on top: after Billy's departure to hit it big in NYC, the gang decides to convene at Houlihan's the next day, because now they're grown-ups.