For those who are interested in modern Irish history - this is for you. It gives the details of the Treaty which ended the War of Independence between Ireland and Britain, which, dry though it sounds, is interesting. It has been well scripted, and superbly acted. It is ironic to consider that here, Brendan Gleeson plays Michael Collins, and in 'Michael Collins'(1996) only the sidekick. Liam Neeson doesn't do the character justice, Brendan Gleeson does. He looks a lot like Michael Collins, and from eyewitness accounts, behaves a lot like him as well. Another interesting point about this film is that it is almost all factually accurate (my sole quibble would be the interplay between Michael Collins and Lloyd-George's wife (I hope that's correct, its a while since I have seen it, sorry if it's wrong)) If you are going to rely on a film for historical accuracy, then please use this as opposed 'Michael Collins'
12 Reviews
Watch this and you might learn something
poc-12 September 2003
This is a historical drama about the treaty negotiation of 1921 that founded the Irish Free State in 1922, later to become the Republic of Ireland. I found it fascinating for two reasons. Firstly it is striking how the two parties locked horns over words and issues which are totally irrelevant today. The importance of the oath of allegiance to the King and the notion that Ireland remain part of the "empire". How stupid it all was looking back. The really important parts, about protecting the rights of minorities and avoiding civil war, seem to be only minor issues to both sides. The Irish Nationalists were obsessed "Irish Freedom" and the British with their "Empire".
The second reason I found it interesting is that it is an object lesson on how negotiations work. There is of course an inevitable comparison with Neil Jordan's epic "Michael Collins". In terms of budget, actors and drama "The Treaty" does not come close. However in terms of historical accuracy and educational value this is a far superior film. I found Jordan's film was far too coloured by his views on the Northern Ireland conflict. He took too much liberty with the historical facts. Watch "The Treaty" and you will learn far more about the events and people of the time.
The second reason I found it interesting is that it is an object lesson on how negotiations work. There is of course an inevitable comparison with Neil Jordan's epic "Michael Collins". In terms of budget, actors and drama "The Treaty" does not come close. However in terms of historical accuracy and educational value this is a far superior film. I found Jordan's film was far too coloured by his views on the Northern Ireland conflict. He took too much liberty with the historical facts. Watch "The Treaty" and you will learn far more about the events and people of the time.
USA first to leave the Empire, Ireland, via The Treaty were next
kelly_john15 January 2022
Does an excellent job of explaining the impossible task Irish negotiators had in London, in 1921, in their negotiations with the British Government.
The Irish, after hundreds of years of trying to gain Independence, had finally got the British to the negotiation table. After a bloody war of Independence, a Truce was called with the British. Could the Irish get what they fought for; a Republic, independent of the British Empire ?
For the British, the danger was if they gave one colony Independence, it might encourage other colonies to seek Independence also, and risked breaking up the British Empire. Thus, removal of an oath of loyalty to the British King was a non-negotiable condition.
To complicate matters,the majority of citizens in the North East of the island, (in the Province of Ulster), did not want Independence.
As if the situation was not complicated enough, Ireland's political leader (Eamon De Valera), refrained from directly taking part in the negotiations (and instead sent a reluctant soldier/politician, Michael Collins instead).
This muddied the waters as to who was the decision makers on the Irish side were (the negation team in London, or De Valera back in Dublin) ?
When the British team (led by Prime Minister Loyd George), finally made their "sign the Treaty tonight, or the British Government will declare outright war" ultimatum, late one night, the Irish team in London were in an impossible situation. This movie captures the events, in a fair and balanced way (from both the Irish and British sides).
The excellent movie is surprisingly hard to get (not even on for sale, or rent on Amazon). Fortunately, it is available for free on YouTube. The picture quality is a bit fuzzy, but still wort watching.
Note: For anyone interested in the War of Independence, which preceded the Treaty, check out the movie: The Wind that shakes the Barley.
The Irish, after hundreds of years of trying to gain Independence, had finally got the British to the negotiation table. After a bloody war of Independence, a Truce was called with the British. Could the Irish get what they fought for; a Republic, independent of the British Empire ?
For the British, the danger was if they gave one colony Independence, it might encourage other colonies to seek Independence also, and risked breaking up the British Empire. Thus, removal of an oath of loyalty to the British King was a non-negotiable condition.
To complicate matters,the majority of citizens in the North East of the island, (in the Province of Ulster), did not want Independence.
As if the situation was not complicated enough, Ireland's political leader (Eamon De Valera), refrained from directly taking part in the negotiations (and instead sent a reluctant soldier/politician, Michael Collins instead).
This muddied the waters as to who was the decision makers on the Irish side were (the negation team in London, or De Valera back in Dublin) ?
When the British team (led by Prime Minister Loyd George), finally made their "sign the Treaty tonight, or the British Government will declare outright war" ultimatum, late one night, the Irish team in London were in an impossible situation. This movie captures the events, in a fair and balanced way (from both the Irish and British sides).
The excellent movie is surprisingly hard to get (not even on for sale, or rent on Amazon). Fortunately, it is available for free on YouTube. The picture quality is a bit fuzzy, but still wort watching.
Note: For anyone interested in the War of Independence, which preceded the Treaty, check out the movie: The Wind that shakes the Barley.
Thoughtful look at how we ended up where we are
mmduffy7 March 2004
I agree completely with the reviewer from Cork that this is a fascinating movie. It's a dramatization of the agonizing negotiations that led to the creation of the Irish Free State in 1922. This is a subject that is pretty much jumped over in the Neil Jordan film "Michael Collins" but which lies at the heart of the current divisions in Ireland. As a result of these negotiations came the bitter Irish civil war and the partition of the island that has caused so much grief in the years since. If you listen you will note the manipulation of events by the principal characters (especially DeValera and Lloyd George) and the betrayals, small and large,and the failure of promises made that led to the divided Ireland of the years since.
Brendan Gleason's portrayal of Collins seems far more reliable and realistic than the one done by Liam Neeson. Gleason's Collins, far from being a "yob from West Cork" is revealed as an intelligent, realistic individual who was well able to hold his own in the company of the British cabinet as well as the sophisticated guests at a dramatized dinner party held by Hazel, Lady Lavery.
Some of the other performances a very good as well. I especially like Ian Bannen's foxy Lloyd George and the late Tony Doyle's portrayal of Arthur Griffith. As an aside about historical accuracy. Griffith was the actual leader of the Irish delegation, as shown here. The Neil Jordan movie incorrectly implies that Collins himself was the leader.
So, if Hollywood fiction and romantic interest are your cup of tea, by all means watch the Neil Jordan movie. But if you really want to learn something about the reasons things are the way they are, try to find a copy of this film. This won't be easy as it doesn't seem to exist in any commercailly available edition. My own copy was taped from a TV broadcast. I hope that one day it will be available for purchase.
Brendan Gleason's portrayal of Collins seems far more reliable and realistic than the one done by Liam Neeson. Gleason's Collins, far from being a "yob from West Cork" is revealed as an intelligent, realistic individual who was well able to hold his own in the company of the British cabinet as well as the sophisticated guests at a dramatized dinner party held by Hazel, Lady Lavery.
Some of the other performances a very good as well. I especially like Ian Bannen's foxy Lloyd George and the late Tony Doyle's portrayal of Arthur Griffith. As an aside about historical accuracy. Griffith was the actual leader of the Irish delegation, as shown here. The Neil Jordan movie incorrectly implies that Collins himself was the leader.
So, if Hollywood fiction and romantic interest are your cup of tea, by all means watch the Neil Jordan movie. But if you really want to learn something about the reasons things are the way they are, try to find a copy of this film. This won't be easy as it doesn't seem to exist in any commercailly available edition. My own copy was taped from a TV broadcast. I hope that one day it will be available for purchase.
A Free State
busterkeaton1173126 April 2005
Brendan Gleason seems to come closer to the image of Michael Collins I got from reading Tim Pat Coogan's biography of the Irish leader then Liam Neeson's turn in Niel Jordan's biopic.While this film,an RTE/BBC co-production didn't have anywhere near the budget of Jordan's film it's producers did a first rate job none the less.The acting is quite good,and the resemblance of Ian Bannen to David Lloyd-George is remarkable!The discussion he has with DeValera about the translation of the Irish word "phoblacht" is interesting,as Lloyd-George was a Welshman,a Celtic group who've managed to keep THEIR Gaelic tongue alive and kicking.All in all while this film hasn't the big screen glamor of "Michael Collins",it is less about the legend of the "Big Fellow", and much closer to the real man.Anyone interested in how modern Ireland came to be should see this film.
Excellent and Accurate
gcasey7528 July 2004
Warning: Spoilers
I agree with the general consensus on this site. The treaty is an excellent, historically accurate dramatisation of the negotiations that led to the Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1921.
Comparisons with Neil Jordan's epic big budget Michael Collins are inevitable - so here goes! The Treaty is not only much more accurate in terms of events but also in terms of characterisation. The portrayal of Michael Collins by Brendan Gleeson is excellent and comes very close to what the historical Michael Collins was like. Liam Neeson's portrayal in Neil Jordan's film by contrast made Collins a little too 'nice' and emphasised Collins' moral qualms. Rightly or wrongly I don't think Collins had moral qualms about his actions. He certainly didn't express many in public. Credit also to the actor (I don't know his name) who portrayed Cathal Brugha. The quiet menace he showed was again much closer to the historical character than the somewhat hysterical portrayal in Jordan's film. The late Tony Doyle also plays Arthur Griffith very well (Griffith is justifiably given a higher place in this film than in Michael Collins). Also good was Barry McGovern's portrayal of DeValera.
In short, the film Michael Collins is a good yarn but looking at the comment pages about how much people 'learned' from it makes me suggest they'd learn a lot more by watching the Treaty.
The Treaty is low budget and originally made for TV so don't expect an epic scale or special effects. It is however, well done throughout. One slight negative (Spoiler Alert) is the one occasion where the film depicted ordinary people, which veered close to stereotype.
That said, if you want to learn about this period of Irish history in a manner that is accurate and leaves you to decide for yourself the moral and historical issues involved then I would unhesitatingly recommend the Treaty. I give it 9/10.
Comparisons with Neil Jordan's epic big budget Michael Collins are inevitable - so here goes! The Treaty is not only much more accurate in terms of events but also in terms of characterisation. The portrayal of Michael Collins by Brendan Gleeson is excellent and comes very close to what the historical Michael Collins was like. Liam Neeson's portrayal in Neil Jordan's film by contrast made Collins a little too 'nice' and emphasised Collins' moral qualms. Rightly or wrongly I don't think Collins had moral qualms about his actions. He certainly didn't express many in public. Credit also to the actor (I don't know his name) who portrayed Cathal Brugha. The quiet menace he showed was again much closer to the historical character than the somewhat hysterical portrayal in Jordan's film. The late Tony Doyle also plays Arthur Griffith very well (Griffith is justifiably given a higher place in this film than in Michael Collins). Also good was Barry McGovern's portrayal of DeValera.
In short, the film Michael Collins is a good yarn but looking at the comment pages about how much people 'learned' from it makes me suggest they'd learn a lot more by watching the Treaty.
The Treaty is low budget and originally made for TV so don't expect an epic scale or special effects. It is however, well done throughout. One slight negative (Spoiler Alert) is the one occasion where the film depicted ordinary people, which veered close to stereotype.
That said, if you want to learn about this period of Irish history in a manner that is accurate and leaves you to decide for yourself the moral and historical issues involved then I would unhesitatingly recommend the Treaty. I give it 9/10.
The compelling treaty
TheLittleSongbird21 August 2018
Brendan Gleeson is a fine actor and the subject is a highly fascinating one, if difficult to bring to screen. It was also the subject of 'Michael Collins' from five years later (being based on the same subject it is inevitable to compare), and while that film was bigger in budget and had actors that were better known, also a film with many great merits, but it is one of those films to be watched on its own terms as a film rather than a true and un-biased piece of history.
Of which 'The Treaty' does a much better job at being. It is not as big in budget or as visually stunning as 'Michael Collins', but it is more truthful and appreciatively less speculative, explores the subject in much more depth with more sides being explored, has more complexity in characterisation and is nowhere near as black and white. It also doesn't have Julia Roberts's unspeakably awful performance.
Would also have liked a little more focus on the division, but there is really very little wrong with 'The Treaty'.
Its main merits are the cast and script. Brendan Gleeson gives a towering performance as Collins, and the support from particularly Ian Bannon and Tony Doyle is also splendid. The script is also very layered and thought-provoking, with the refusal to not take sides and showing that it was a complex situation shining through. On a factual level, it is very accurate and is not reliant at all on speculation or sacrificing the truth for trying to appeal to modern audiences (like with casting Roberts as a crass box office draw decision).
'The Treaty's' storytelling is nowhere near close to being as dry as it may sound on paper. It absorbs from start to finish and captures everything that was so interesting and complex about the Treaty itself in the first place with different view-points shown effectively. All the characters are well-drawn and non-biased, no clichés or heroes and villains here (not saying that 'Michael Collins' was that exactly, but still stand by finding some of it black-and-white).
Production values are not lavish as such and it is not as beautifully photographed as 'Michael Collins', but they are not cheap either and are perhaps more evocative.
Overall, very good and never less than compelling. 8/10 Bethany Cox
Of which 'The Treaty' does a much better job at being. It is not as big in budget or as visually stunning as 'Michael Collins', but it is more truthful and appreciatively less speculative, explores the subject in much more depth with more sides being explored, has more complexity in characterisation and is nowhere near as black and white. It also doesn't have Julia Roberts's unspeakably awful performance.
Would also have liked a little more focus on the division, but there is really very little wrong with 'The Treaty'.
Its main merits are the cast and script. Brendan Gleeson gives a towering performance as Collins, and the support from particularly Ian Bannon and Tony Doyle is also splendid. The script is also very layered and thought-provoking, with the refusal to not take sides and showing that it was a complex situation shining through. On a factual level, it is very accurate and is not reliant at all on speculation or sacrificing the truth for trying to appeal to modern audiences (like with casting Roberts as a crass box office draw decision).
'The Treaty's' storytelling is nowhere near close to being as dry as it may sound on paper. It absorbs from start to finish and captures everything that was so interesting and complex about the Treaty itself in the first place with different view-points shown effectively. All the characters are well-drawn and non-biased, no clichés or heroes and villains here (not saying that 'Michael Collins' was that exactly, but still stand by finding some of it black-and-white).
Production values are not lavish as such and it is not as beautifully photographed as 'Michael Collins', but they are not cheap either and are perhaps more evocative.
Overall, very good and never less than compelling. 8/10 Bethany Cox
Very good but...
bigbadbear6929 September 2014
As a member of my family (Robert Barton) was one of the Irish negotiators of the treaty, I tracked this down and watched it a few nights ago on YouTube.
I would agree with the views expressed that The Treaty is an historically accurate although dramatised account of events that led to the situation we have today.
Maybe I have a biased viewpoint but I think the character of Michael Collins dominates this too much. This drama focuses on the treaty negotiations and more could have been made of the of the split between Collins, Griffith and Duggan who were in favour of the treaty and Barton and Childers who were against, particularly as the division was referred to early on.
Nonetheless, far better than "Michael Collins"!
I would agree with the views expressed that The Treaty is an historically accurate although dramatised account of events that led to the situation we have today.
Maybe I have a biased viewpoint but I think the character of Michael Collins dominates this too much. This drama focuses on the treaty negotiations and more could have been made of the of the split between Collins, Griffith and Duggan who were in favour of the treaty and Barton and Childers who were against, particularly as the division was referred to early on.
Nonetheless, far better than "Michael Collins"!
For Further Collins Info
fenianbritt28 July 2010
I purchased the DVD through the Collins 22 Society on the web. I think both Neeson and Gleeson portrayed Collins well. Gleeson was lucky enough to work with writers who portrayed Collins' intellectual side better. It's hinted at in "Michael Collins." The list of noteworthy Irish and British actors is impressive, and Doyle is excellent as the leader (as said in an earlier post--yes, Griffith was the leader) of the delegation.
It would take a 10 part series to properly include all the intrigue, side deals, secret meetings, and counter-intelligence involved in that short period of time. This film does well in giving the essence, if not the details, of the time.
It would take a 10 part series to properly include all the intrigue, side deals, secret meetings, and counter-intelligence involved in that short period of time. This film does well in giving the essence, if not the details, of the time.
Well Worth Watching If You Like History!
bubba-newman9 February 2006
There are several areas of history I enjoy . . . the Irish struggle for freedom is one of them. I found this film to be both educational and entertaining. I voted 8/10 for that reason, not for technical brilliance or visual quality. While well done, this movie would not hold up against the higher-quality Hollywood movies as far as visual richness is concerned. That said, the movie holds a place of honor in my library. It might be difficult to find if you want to buy or rent it, but it is worth the effort. Surprisingly, the movie stars a couple actors well known in the States -- Ian Bannen and Brendan Gleeson (who just had a major part in the latest Harry Potter offering.) If you like history, or if you want to know some of the history of the IRA or the Irish / British battle, see this movie!
Gleeson was born for this role
dieBaumfabrik21 January 2009
Warning: Spoilers
**seriously, if you don't know how the Irish War of Independence went, you shouldn't be allowed internet access.** 'The Treaty' may seem dull in comparison to Ridley Scott's badly-cast money-maker 'Michael Collins', but this movie had two well-cast stars in the meat of the affair: Gleeson and Bannen. I could rest there, but the other English and Irish characters were also well-played. Oh, such a great ensemble piece without the redundant explosions!
Unlike other shows about the War of Independence, in which only about 2000 people died, this movie let us know how justified the War was, by giving us a potted insight into the Irish and British minds. Whereas the idea of stopping the War was portrayed as a disgrace for a bunch of well-fed and well-bred British politicians, the consequence of which would be a few lost votes in Parliament, the idea of losing the War for the Irish was met with such hostility that the clever Irish leaders were looked upon as traitors - an idea that led directly to the more costly Civil War...
The Civil War should not have been (Collins was killed, in case you didn't know), but to watch the boys 'at the top' argue who should live, and for what reason, made watching this show a thrill.
Unlike other shows about the War of Independence, in which only about 2000 people died, this movie let us know how justified the War was, by giving us a potted insight into the Irish and British minds. Whereas the idea of stopping the War was portrayed as a disgrace for a bunch of well-fed and well-bred British politicians, the consequence of which would be a few lost votes in Parliament, the idea of losing the War for the Irish was met with such hostility that the clever Irish leaders were looked upon as traitors - an idea that led directly to the more costly Civil War...
The Civil War should not have been (Collins was killed, in case you didn't know), but to watch the boys 'at the top' argue who should live, and for what reason, made watching this show a thrill.
Any chance of this being issued on CD?
mmduffy11 March 2006
This is by far a better dramatization of Michael Collins than the Neil Jordan film. Brendan Gleeson is wonderful as Collins and even looks much like him. I found it ironic that he was still not a big enough "name" for Jordan to cast him as Collins, yet he was cast as Collins' companion on his last fatal journey home.
Jordan's Michael Collins passed over Collins' role in the negotiations that created the Itish Free State, although it did reference it. Jordan picked the story up again with Collins' return from England and the rejection of the treaty by the die-hard Republicans as the prelude to the Civil War that cost Collins his life. The Treaty goes a long way to explaining how the divisive situation came about.
I taped The Treaty from TV and have viewed it over and over. I would really love to see it issued as a DVD.
Jordan's Michael Collins passed over Collins' role in the negotiations that created the Itish Free State, although it did reference it. Jordan picked the story up again with Collins' return from England and the rejection of the treaty by the die-hard Republicans as the prelude to the Civil War that cost Collins his life. The Treaty goes a long way to explaining how the divisive situation came about.
I taped The Treaty from TV and have viewed it over and over. I would really love to see it issued as a DVD.
See also
Awards | FAQ | User Ratings | External Reviews | Metacritic Reviews
