Jon Schnepp: Self
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Quotes
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Jon Schnepp : [opening lines] Nerds, geeks, sweat. Look how far we've come, we rule the world, but it wasn't always this way. Let's go back to a time when there was no comic book cinematic universe. When you had to wait three years to get a superhero movie. Back to a time when Batman used a credit card. This is a film about a superhero movie that didn't get made in 1998. A movie called 'Superman Lives' was in production. It was gonna be directed by Tim Burton and starring Nicolas Cage as Superman.
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Jon Schnepp : "Superman Lives" was basically written by three different screenwriters: Kevin Smith, Wesley Strick and Dan Gilroy. All three scripts revolved around the same story basically taken from the comic book series "The Death of Superman" where Superman fought the villains Lex Luthor, Brainiac and the killing machine Doomsday. Doomsday killed Superman in the comic books and he came back to life using Kryptonian technology. This revitalized the comic book series. Warner Bros. took their cue from the comic books to revitalize their movie franchise.
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[last lines]
Jon Schnepp : So any final thoughts on "Superman Lives"? If you were to -- if you think back about it now, how do you feel about it?
Tim Burton : [sighs] Why are you trying to depress me so much today? Anybody got any cyanide or anything I can take? Visit me when I'm about 90 and I'll be here.
[imitating elderly self]
Tim Burton : "Still gonna make it. Gonna make it."
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Kevin Smith : "Superman Lives" or "Superman Reborn" and then "Superman Lives" and then later "Superman Returns" was meant to be kind of like, "Let's kickstart Superman again" in a bit more earnest way. Not the spit-curl and wink of Chris Reeve and Dick Donner; they wanted a '90s version of Superman. Even though when I was writing all I was writing was Chris Reeve. I thought Bryan Singer's version forgot to like put in
Jon Schnepp : Action?
Kevin Smith : Action, yeah! Like, he didn't get to punch anybody. He punched an island. Then somebody pointed out that like Superman doesn't get to punch everything every movie and I thought about it. I looked back and sometimes he didn't punch...
Jon Schnepp : He fought some video game-type things in "Superman III".
Kevin Smith : He fought good taste in "Superman III", fought himself. Remember? He turned people and drinking whiskey. Like I could see why Bryan Singer was sucked into a quasi-sequel to the Dick Donner Superman movies. Those were our Superman movies, they were so magical and they found a way to make them work where your parents could sit there and be like, "Yeah, all right. He's fighting General Zod. I get it." You know, they're like, "All right, I can get behind this." So you know there's a pull to it because it's the classic lore and Dick Donner had done such a great job with it.
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Kevin Smith : Jon Peters comes in. "I hear you've got a take on Superman." I was like, "Yeah, yeah." He's going, "Okay, let me tell you -- let me hear it."
Jon Peters : You know, Kevin came in. He was kind of an interesting character. We talked about a lot of different things. He was such a nut. He was so animated and he talks a great game. I trusted him.
Kevin Smith : He goes, "Okay. Three things I want with this picture. I'm gonna send you on your way. Do your thing, come back. Number 1: I don't want to see him fly." I said, "Okay. Ever?" He goes, "No, I think it looks fake. I hate all that flying shit. So I don't want to see him fly." I was, "Okay." "Number 2: I don't want to see him in that suit." I was like, "Which suit?" He's going, "That suit. The suit he's always wearing." I was like, "Superman's suit? With the cape and the blue and the red and the yellow?" He goes, "Yeah, I don't like it." His words, not mine: "Too faggy." I said, "Uh, all right."
Jon Schnepp : [to Jon Peters] You gave him some notes and he said, "The three things I don't want - I don't want him to fly, I don't want him in that costume --"
Jon Peters : [unfazed] None of that's true. Okay? No, that's not true. Of course, he has to fly. He always flew. It's Superman you're talking about. He's in the costume. None of those are true. Is there a third one?
Kevin Smith : "Number 3: He has to fight a giant spider in the third act." I said, "Okay, really?"
Jon Schnepp : [back with Jon Peters] He has to fight a giant spider.
Jon Peters : Well, that was a Thanagarian snare beast.
Kevin Smith : "What is this based on?" He goes, "Well, do you know anything about spiders? Spiders are the fiercest killers in the animal kingdom. You know you gotta be careful around spiders. So if you had a big one -- imagine how deadly they are. I'm looking for my moment in this movie. Like "King Kong" when I was a boy and they opened up the gates and you saw the giant monkey going, I want to open up the gates and then you see this gigantic spider coming out and Superman's got to fight it. The spider's a vision I have." I was like, "Okay, man, I'll spider it up for you and stuff."
Jon Peters : If I remember it correctly, I acted as the director for a while by bringing in people and starting some of my concepts on paper so that ultimately when I brought on Tim or whoever we brought in I can sit down and say, "Okay, this is where we are and what we've done."
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Kevin Smith : It was one of those jobs where I was just like, "Fuck it. Write your dream movie." You know what I'm saying? "It's the dream job. Go crazy, because whoever's going to direct is gonna change anything they don't like anyway." I had the Eradicator in there. I had Cyborg Superman. Lex Luthor was in there. Doomsday was in there. Brainiac was a villain. It was packed.
Jon Schnepp : One of the things that your script actually brought in that now everyone's doing is the crossover. You actually had not only a lot of different villains -- like Deadshot was in it -- but you also had Batman.
Kevin Smith : That's right. There was a sequence where it was during Superman's funeral. Very dramatic. It was clearly written by a Batman fan. It was almost the whole reason I took the job was just to write this cameo. It's kind of like Times Square. They got TVs everywhere or whatever. Then, they all just go...
[imitates sound of TVs changing channel]
Kevin Smith : ... and there's a big Bat symbol and then he comes on. He gives them this message of encouragement like, "People of Metropolis, your hero's fallen..." Real wank stuff if you're a comic book nerd. I turn it in. Lorenzo's like, "I like this." Basil's like, "I like this." Jon, his people like Tracy Barone who was running his company at that point -- Tracy goes, "You're gonna come over tomorrow to have a meeting with Jon, right?" I said, "To talk about the script?" She goes, "To read the script." I go, "What do you mean, 'read the script'?" She's going, "He likes to have the script read to him out loud." I was like, "Get out of here, man! You want me to like tuck him in after I'm done?" She's going, "I'm serious."
Jon Peters : First of all, I'm not a good reader, number 1. Number 2, everyone sometimes reads things differently.
Kevin Smith : I said, "I understand I'm going to read you a script." He's going, "Totally. Let's do this, man." He lays down on his couch, his tennis shorts on and stuff. He's looking up at the ceiling and he goes like this.
[Smith holds his fingers up, making a rectangle]
Kevin Smith : He was making director hands as he was laying there and this was the movie screen that he was placing onto his ceiling; so that while I was reading he was seeing it on a canvas.
Jon Peters : I'm a visual guy. Most things I do by visualization. Every script I ever get I have someone read it to me and I just, you know, just lay back and listen and I run it on my screen in my brain.
Kevin Smith : At one point, he stops. He goes, "Nothing's happening. You got Brainiac coming to the Fortress of Solitude. There's no fight! Where's the fight? Have somebody up there, man. Have them like Brainiac's fighting Superman's guards." I go, "Well, it's called the Fortress of Solitude. Like nobody's up there. He's alone. Plus, why would Superman need guards? He's Superman, dude. Like think about it." And he goes, "Well, what about polar bears?" And I go, "Polar bears?" He goes, "Polar bears are the fiercest killers in teh animal kingdom."
Jon Peters : I'm sure there was 50 other ideas we could have come up with. But at the time -- and we wanted to animate those things or whatever we created as something that he could fight and there's nothing more ferocious as a 3,000-pound giant 12-foot, 15-foot polar bear.
Jon Schnepp : [speaking to Kevin Smith] I remember reading a version. I don't know if you -- there's two drafts that are of yours that are online. Brainiac is going to the Fortress of Solitude and there's two polar bears that just see him, right? I was like, "Are they the guards?" He fucked one up and the other one skimps away.
Kevin Smith : That's it.
Jon Schnepp : But then this one that I was reading earlier this week that has the polar bears just as statues outside because -- I was reading. I was like, "Am I tripping?" So I was like combing through it trying to figure out but I think...
Kevin Smith : I don't know if it was Tom Lassally or Lorenzo going like, "Why is Brainiac killing an animal?" And I was like, "Because Jon thought that he needed to fight Superman's guards up at the Fortress of Solitude." Lorenzo was like, "Why would Superman need guards?" I was like, "I know, right?"
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Kevin Smith : I appeased Warner Bros. by not calling it a spider. I called it a Thanagarian snare beast.
Jon Schnepp : Another Hawkman reference.
Kevin Smith : A little Hawkman reference. The planet Thanagar or something like that. Just little things to throw in and the Warner Bros. execs were like, "As long as it doesn't say spider, we don't give a fuck. We know it's a spider. Call it what you --" I mean, snare beast? Like come on.
Jon Schnepp : [talking to Jon Peters] What made you want to tell "The Death of Superman"?
Jon Peters : I loved, you know, dramatic structures. So the idea was the death of Superman. Chaos rules. Really, I knew it could be amazing. I just felt it in my bones.
Kevin Smith : They wanted to do "The Death of Superman" storyline that had been done very successfully in the comics a few years before. "Death" and "Return".
